耶格：1976年，我创办了Big Pack品牌。1994年，我参与创办了欧洲户外展，把户外用品从体育展会中独立出来。我担任了八年的德国户外协会主席，后来德国户外协会发展成为了欧洲户外协会，并将菲德列斯哈芬展览公司作为亲密的合作伙伴。这些经历让我熟悉户外市场和户外产业两方面的需求。户外市场要求我们要努力发展出独立的户外展会，是纯户外用品展会，而不是与体育用品混在一起。2002年，我出售了Big Pack。2004年，我来到中国，目标是创办亚洲或者中国户外展，是纯户外用品展，而不是体育用品展。

 

 

　　耶格：我的目标达到了。亚洲户外展的发展与户外市场的发展同步，要知道展会是不能比市场发展得更快的；但是中国户外市场每年20-25%的增长，亚洲户外展也做到了20-25%的增长。2011年，亚洲户外展将有质的飞跃，估计增长将超过20%；这个信心来源于大量新的国外品牌的参展，还有就是展会启用全新的展馆。

 

 

　　耶格：欧洲自行车展是由德国菲德列斯哈芬展览公司主办的。今年，欧洲自行车展与亚洲户外展合作，推出第一届亚洲自行车展，观众可以一张票看亚洲户外展和亚洲自行车展两场展会了。

 

 

　　耶格：在开始阶段，户外市场是狭小的，户外品牌商一年里只选择一场展会参展。现在市场越做越大，出现了冬季与夏季两场户外展会。在南京的亚洲户外展是夏季展会，而且是纯户外展会，而在北京的ISPO是综合性的展会，所以两家并不是竞争对手。

 

 

　　耶格：未来我们将看到更多的类似于KAILAS与VAUDE合作的范例。VAUDE是国际高端品牌，有助于KAILAS稳固高端户外市场，而VAUDE也可以借助KAILAS渠道资源打开中国市场，长远来说，这是一个非常好的开端。欧美户外品牌依靠其先进技术与经营经验，选择中国本土品牌作为合作伙伴，我想这是未来更为普遍的一种合作模式。现在，欧洲与中国户外品牌都希望建立一个平台。亚洲户外展就是要做成这样一个平台，能使品牌商们更直接的交流受益。国外户外品牌与中国户外品牌的双赢合作是未来发展的必然趋势。

 

 

　　耶格：我认为40%的增长并不是普遍与长期性的。2011年中国户外产业发展阶段与25到30年前德国户外产业很类似；如今德国户外市场已经非常成熟了，如果每年能增长3-5%，我们就非常满意了。

 

 

　　耶格：对于中国户外品牌商，他们必须学习研究开发产品，而不是抄袭国外的产品。如果哪个品牌商能下决心这么做下去，那么这个品牌必然会脱颖而出，飞速发展。

 

　　在生产方面，中国品牌依托本土制造业资源，是具有优势的。

 

　　在市场方面，中国同行做得非常好；不过我认为很多中国品牌商并不很关心专业户外店的销售，还有就是过于关注泛户外产品，而忽略了高端专业户外产品。如果品牌商们有充足的资金并且定位在泛户外用品上，那么投入在大商场上销售是没有问题的，不过从长远看，专业品牌最终是很难在商场取得成功的。

 

 

　　耶格：德国有8200万人口，其中30%的人热爱户外运动。他们乐于参与某种户外运动以保持身体健康，比如远足。当下的中国老百姓，参与户外运动的人口比例是非常有限的。这意味着户外产业里所有各方-展会，品牌，渠道和媒体，要做大量转变群众观念的工作。现在中国老百姓每到周末都爱去逛商场，而不是去远足。如果户外爱好者都具备了参与户外追求健康的意识，那么将大大增加户外爱好者数量。

 

　　户外资料网（8264）对于户外市场发展是非常重要的平台。8264将户外产业核心人士与顾客联系在一起，交流户外市场信息和户外运动信息。8264与户外产业，展会，顾客之间息息相通，未来是非常光明的。同样的，亚洲户外展也不仅仅是一个展会或卖场，它是户外市场的大平台，所有的品牌商与销售商都可以驻足交流。交流户外市场发展的信息比单纯做个展会要更为重要。8264是重要的网络交流平台，两家合作，将起到重要的作用。

 

 

　　耶格：探路者业绩优良，向国外户外同行展示了中国户外产业的形象，因此，对于其他的众多中国品牌商与销售商来说，公司上市成为了他们的梦想，比如三夫户外；这是品牌为未来发展获得充足资金的好机缘。

 

　　对于中小户外店，和中小品牌商的境况差不多，他们不得不从市场里寻求资金支持，不过市场发展很快，大家都是有机会的，你们看，KAILAS在短短十年里就发展成户外行业的翘楚。品牌必须不断革新发展，提高产品品质，做到有口皆碑。即使没有充裕的资金支持，中小品牌也是有发展机会的，他们可以和实力相当的户外店取得合作；如果拥有大量资金，那么无论进入户外店还是商场，都是有发展机会的。

 

 

　　耶格：我认为两个可能性都有，因为中高端户外品牌目前都希望进入中国。超强的品牌当然更希望独吞市场，而其他的品牌，都会制定适于自己的策略。品牌商们会在中国投下巨资占领市场，而他们会更乐于找到合作伙伴，VAUDE和KAILAS合作就是个成功的模式。

 

 

　　耶格：欧洲的各种协会对于品牌商们的市场经营策略没有任何影响力。协会的作用是把产业内的人士召集在一起，制定适合的产品质量标准和安全标准。事务委员会综合考量市场的需求与生产的能力，而标准制定组织成员更关心标准不仅适用于德国，而且更适用于欧洲。标准制定组织不是法律授权建立的，它是一个工作小组，由消费者，产业人士和检测机构组成，有时还要媒体人士参与。每个协会都有各自的发展方向，并与政府方面沟通。比方说，检测机构希望收取高昂的检测费用，消费者或政府组织则把安全放在首位，而生产商更注重技术上的可行性。如果标准制定得过高，生产成本高昂，即便是生产出来了，也不会有人购买。这意味着所有的工作小组成员都必须综合各方的意见制定出可行的计划；以上就是协会的作用。此外，协会还要及时发布流行趋势报告，并在品牌新品上市前通过媒体发布。协会的作用是推动市场的不断发展，而不会有任何的政府意志左右其中。

 

附英文本：

 

　　Thomas: As one of founders of ASIa Outdoor. Could you please tell the historical background at that time?

 

　　Jaeger: First I developed outdoor brand Big Pack in 1976, and in 1994, the European Outdoor Fair was developed from the sports fair.I was the 8-year the chairman for the German Outdoor Group and then followed up the fair Friedrichshafen. Europe Outdoor Group (EOG) chose Friedrichshafen as cooperation partner. According to that, I know what the market need and what the industry need. What the market need is how we can develop special outdoor fair with focus on 100 percent outdoor, not a mix. I sold out Big Pack，and in 2004 I went to China. My target was to develop Asia or Chinese outdoor show, 100% outdoor show, not sports show.

 

 

　　Jaeger: Yes. They are growing with the same speed than the market, because they cannot go faster than the market, but the market grow 20-25% every year and the outdoor fair also grow 20-25% every year.

 

　　In 2011, we will grow over 20% by quality, because a lot of new foREIgn brands come; and we move into a completely new place.

 

 

　　Jaeger: Messe Friedrichshafen is the owner and organizer of the Euro Bike, Euro Bike we create is in cooperation with Asia Outdoor-the first Asia Bike. So this year, one ticket can be for two fairs -Asia Outdoor and Asia Bike.

 

　　Thomas: Messe Friedrichshafen and ISPO both come from Germany and now China have two famous fairs, ISPO in February and Asia Outdoor in July. What do you think about the competition between these two fairs and how we can make it move?

 

　　Jaeger: at the beginning, outdoor market was small and brands chose only one fair a year. Now the market is much bigger, coming out the winter outdoor fair and summer outdoor fair. We are summer fair, so we don't think we are competitor of ISPO. We are 100% outdoor, and ISPO not.

 

 

　　Jaeger: I see more cooperation like KAILAS and VAUDE example: because VAUDE is international high-end brand and it can help to keep Kailas reputation in the high-end market, while VAUDE can open China market through KAILAS sales channels; this is a beginning from future opinion. The European and American brands with know-how and technology choose the local partners exchanged by and I think this is kind of cooperation in future more often.

 

 

　　Jaeger: Now European brand and Chinese brand are looking for a platform. We'd like to become a platform to let them help each other directly. Foreign brand cooperation with Chinese brand is a win-win situation, this is a coming future.

 

 

　　Jaeger: I think 40% increase is not all the time. As for the question, Chinese outdoor situation in 2011 is similar with that of Germany 25-30 years ago, because German market is mature already. It's good to increase 3-5% every year.

 

 

　　Jaeger: For Chinese brand, they must learn development and own production without copy. And if they are ready to follow up this, they are really different to others, and they will find higher speed of the moment.

　　In production, Chinese brands have their advantages; their product sourcing is local.

 

　　In marketing, China does well, but in my eyes, many Chinese brands don't care too much on outdoor stores in sales; besides of this, many of them too much focus on soft outdoor, not so much on high-end and professional outdoor. When they have enough money, it is not a problem to invest a lot to shopping mall, but it's not easy to sUCCeed finally for most brands in the long run.

 

 

　　Jaeger: in Germany, we have 82 million population and 30% of them like outdoor sports. They like to do something outdoor for health like hiking. For Chinese people of this moment, the percentage is very limited. That means all platforms - the fair, the brand, the dealer, and the media must do a lot to transmit the outdoor philosophy to the market. Now we have many more people go to mall in the weekend instead of hiking. But if attendance to do more outdoor sports for health, it can increase more outdoor lovers

 

　　For 8264, it's a very important platform for development of outdoor market. It brings the core industry dealers and consumers together, exchange marketing information, outdoor information. 8264 at soft beginning follows up very clear routes to the industry, fair and consumer and he has a bright future.

 

　　Also, Asia Outdoor is not only a fair for sale, it's a marketing platform and the marketplace for all industry and all dealers. The market that exchanges news what's going on is more important than it is, and 8264 has important internet platform and important tools to cooperate with this.

 

 

　　Jaeger: Toread does a very good job and shows the Chinese outdoor industry to foreign market. And of course, it's a dream for many other Chinese brands and retailers like Sanfo to follow in. It's the brand to get chance to take over enough money for the future development.

 

　　For small and medium dealers, they have to find other investment from the market, with the same situation to small and medium brands, but the market grow very fast and they have chances. For instance, Kailas in less than 10 years grows into a big player.

 

　　Brands must be innovative, and continue to develop its quality, and keep word of mouth advertisement. They have chance to grow even they don't have enough money. For small brands, they can grow in safe way in the cooperation with specialized dealers. If brand has enough money, they can grow through its outdoor store or shopping mall, so both have chance.

 

 

　　Jaeger: Both, because medium and high brands are now looking into China. When they have enough money they like to be alone to eat the cake; if not, they will be looking for strategies. some have enough money to invest China, but they will think the part of cooperation is better to follow in. VAUDE and KAILAS is a pioneer on this.

 

 

　　Jaeger: Association has no influence on what the brand is doing- marketing or policy.

 

　　They bring industry together to follow up. They build the sound standard and continue new standard-quality standard and safety standard. The working group checks what the market need and product need and be member of the standard organization in Germany or Europe to take care that standard is not a gain to Germany but gain to Europe. The standard organization is not organized by law. It's a working group, include Consumer Station, Industry Station and Test Institute and sometime can be Media. One group has its own direction and can have a dialogue with government.

 

　　For instance, the testing people like to have high price because they make money by testing. The consumer of organization says safety is number one. The simple thing to operate is everything. The Industry says what technical feasibility is, which means products development cannot follow any dream. They must be followed up by technical feasibility.

 

　　The product technical advices are a lot of things positive, but sometimes the standard is too high but the product is too expensive, and nobody can buy. That means all the groups have to sit together to discuss and at the end they have a plan. These above are functions of outdoor associations. The association must create fashion also and announce to the media one year earlier than the product coming to the market. They give push to the market, but no political association attends and the group and it is not organized by government.